From Fear To Connection: Parenting Through Identity Shifts | Heather Hester

We explore how parents move from shock and fear to connection when a child comes out, and how a simple pause can turn reactivity into repair. Heather Hester shares her path from Chrysalis Mama to leading with her own name, blending advocacy, faith, grief, and grounded love.

• naming fear and grieving the “movie reel” future
• responding with “thank you, I love you”
• using the purposeful pause to regulate and choose
• building deeper parent–child connection through curiosity
• quiet depletion, self care and journaling habits
• protecting marriage under stress and seeking counsel
• faith, family tension and speaking with clarity
• moving from surviving to serving with boundaries
• one small shift this week: practice the pause

Send in questions. We’ll do a part two.
The easiest way to find all of the things that I do is through my website, which is heatherhester.net.
You don’t have to fix everything, y’all. You just have to delay the reaction long enough to choose with intention.

 This conversation is part of a special prequel to The Becoming Series, launching May 2026!

This is Delay the Binge™ — formerly The Plus One Theory Podcast.

Delay the Binge™ explores the patterns behind urges, habits, emotional eating, stress, burnout, and Quiet Depletion™, and what happens in the pause between impulse and action, where real behavior change begins.

Through conversations with leading experts in neuroscience, psychology, resilience, and human behavior, you’ll gain practical insight into how the brain shapes reactions, and how small, intentional shifts can interrupt patterns and create lasting change.

Because it’s not about willpower…it’s about what you do in the moment the urge hits.

Full video episodes available on YouTube
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Learn more: https://delaythebinge.com

Pam Dwyer | Speaker & Bestselling Author
Storytelling that transforms. Healing that lasts.

Books + Speaking:  https://www.tpkkconcepts.com/

⚠️ IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER

This podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical, psychological, or professional advice.

The content shared reflects personal experiences and general insights and should not replace guidance from a licensed healthcare provider, therapist, or qualified profe...

Transcript

Naming Identity And The Pause

SPEAKER_00 0:00

If you've ever loved someone deeply and still felt overwhelmed, unsure, or quietly afraid you might get it wrong, this conversation is for you. Today we're talking about identity. Not just your child's identity, not just labels, but your identity as a parent, as a woman, as someone becoming something new. You're listening to Delay the Binge, where we explore what happens in the pause between reaction and response. And how that pause can change everything. I'm Pam Dwyer, best-selling author and creator of Delay the Binge. And today I am honored to welcome Heather Hester, founder of Chrysalis Mama, and a powerful advocate for parents navigating unexpected paths with courage and compassion. Heather, I'm so glad you're here. Welcome, welcome. Thank you, Pam. I'm delighted to be here. Well, before we go back to how this all started, tell us, tell us where your work stands today. If and if someone is hearing your name for the first time, how would you describe what you're building right now and who you're serving in this season?

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Wow. So, yes, if this is the the first time you're hearing my name, which it very likely may be because I kind of uh work in a very niche, quiet way, but I am an ally, an advocate for LGBTQ plus people, their families. Um, I am also an author, and I communicate with people in a lot of different ways, but my overarching mission is to make the world a kinder place. And um, so I do that, I do that in a many different different ways.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

I I really love kindness, and that's what started my whole podcast was just to to speak on kindness and how it's a superpower, you know? So um let's start here about helping parents. So what what are you most passionate about when you're helping parents right now? That's a it's a big question.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

That is a big question. There are a lot of there are a lot of things right now that are going on in in the world that that make that a very big question. But I think as it pertains specifically to um allyship work and advocacy, it would be really working with parents to um heal their connection with their child and um and if not heal to build an even deeper, grow an even deeper connection with their child and really learn the pieces that they need to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

I love that so much. You know, I've worked with young people for well over 20 years, and I always find if you give the young person a voice, they're wonderful, but it's usually the parents that I spend most of my time, you know, counseling and working with and talking with because they are struggling.

SPEAKER_03 3:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

Yeah. And so what do you what are they struggling with the most?

Fear, Safety, And Real Risks

SPEAKER_01 3:23

I mean I think well, I think it kind of depends on where where their child is as far as where they are in their coming out process, so to speak. I think one of the biggest things initially is that feeling of shock, that feeling of, well, I created this whole picture in my mind of how my child's life was supposed to be, how our life was supposed to be as a family. And now that is just completely blown up. And I think that is a really important place to sit and really analyze why. Um, I'm a big believer in um, you know, that we have to go through. And so sitting with that discomfort and and really talking about, you know, why is this uncomfortable? What were you envisioning? What was that plan that you had in your mind? Even if a lot of times it's very subconscious, right? And so the parent is like, I'm so upset, and this is a mistake, and they're in so much danger. And this, and when you kind of peel all of that back, it comes down to, oh, I'm actually just afraid because now it doesn't match what I had created in my head. So it's really just getting all the way back to that and allowing that. I call it the movie reel, allowing your movie reel to explode and and and grieve that and go through and understand that that is grief. Go through those stages of grief, encourage your child to grieve that because they have likely either just been along for the ride at minimum, but they probably have had their own movie reel that they've created. And perhaps, you know, there are pieces of that that have they've had to let go of. And so I think this is, you know, not only an important process for the parent, but it can also be a really connecting process for the parent and the child together.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

Yes, I can relate to that so very much because of my past working with young people and their families. I just, you know, sometimes even me as a parent, we have certain uh dreams and goals with our kids. You know, we're gonna make sure that they are everything we weren't, right? Or we're gonna try to correct our past mistakes through them. And when they don't fit that mold, I mean, I'm sure that that's gotta be hard. And it's happened to me several times where my child did not go down the road that I had planned for them. And it's difficult. It it is really difficult, right?

Kids’ Wisdom And Giving Voice

SPEAKER_01 6:11

It is um, and it's one of those things where you don't necessarily realize that that's what you were doing. You don't have perhaps a lot of like conscious awareness of I have planned this and this is what I want to do, and this is why I want to do this. And but you just you laid it out there beautifully. It is because of all of those reasons. And then I will add just one more, which is when you add in um a child who has told you that their identity or their sexual orientation is different than something that you'd planned for, then you that adds in a a level of fear for the parent. And um that adds in a lot of uncertainty and uh with good reason, right? I mean, that the world is as a little bit of a frightening place. And so, you know, especially depending on where you are geographically. So there's there are, you know, it's real. So I think there's like that piece of like validating that this is a a real thing that you are feeling. There's nothing silly or wrong with you. Um, and it's necessary to work through that and a so that you can move forward.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

So that you can as a parent, I think the fear is real with a lot of things, but especially in this area, because you want to protect them and you don't want them having having hardships or a difficult life. And many times I've had this conversation, and my son, my son is the one that really put me in my place once. It took one time for him to say this to me. And he I remember he was, I think, 15 or 16, and he was not doing anything like we had planned for him to do in school and stuff. And I told him, I said, son, I'm just trying to help you. I'm trying to save you a lot of trouble and pain later. And he looks me right in the face and he says, Mom, they're my mistakes to make. And I had nothing. I couldn't say anything to that. They are his his mistakes to make and to learn from, you know.

Personal Work And Finding Clarity

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Yeah. I mean, they are the the wisdom that comes out of our children is quite extraordinary. And um, I think that you and I were probably brought up in a a similar time where we were not necessarily looked at by our parents just generationally to have wisdom, right? We were to be, you know, I was certainly in my family, it was we were to be seen and not heard, like it was very much of you are the child, I am the parent, I know everything, that kind of mentality, which is a very generational mentality. And um, I have found it most spectacular as I've had these four little creatures, that I'm just like the wisdom that comes out of them is amazing. And and statements like that where you think, Oh, you're right, actually. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

Yeah, okay. Giving young people a voice and really listening to them makes all the difference in the world, especially for future communication and expressing their feelings with you, even finding their own identity. I find that that's critical. But if they're afraid to speak or they don't feel that they have a voice to talk with you, you know, I'm sure that's when it gets difficult. You know, I hear you speak now with clarity and you're you're grounded in strength. It's all in your voice. But I know I as for most people, that doesn't happen overnight, right? What what feels different about your leadership now compared to say a year ago? You're you're becoming, you know, like how did you go from A to B and helping all these wonderful people, you know, transition?

Chrysalis Mama To Heather Hester

SPEAKER_01 10:26

How did you get from I a lot of personal work? I've done a lot of work on myself as I've also been helping other people and as I've been working with my kids. And um because I started what I'm doing like eight eight-ish years ago, um, from a place of it was very much of a just a passion project and something that felt so important to me that I just um became become a voice and become a place for people to know that they weren't alone in in their journeys, right? It wasn't out of um feeling authoritative or feeling like I knew so much more, or um, you know, any any like this was my business. It was not my business at that point. It was very much like the podcast I felt was a love letter. Like as I did my writing, it was like this is all to help. So over time, as I've done more and more of my own personal work, as I've worked with more and more people, as I've met more and more people through my pad my podcast, right? As I've done all of these things, it's a million little pieces that have led to where I am now. I would say that there has, I've had in the past year extraordinary growth, but it has only been because of the foundation that was laid before. And I was ready to, I was ready to come out from behind and speak very clearly. I was I had gone through um a lot of grief in different ways, but I had like been in it. I sat in it. I mean, I did I did all of the things that I speak about and I um You've lived it. I've lived it. Exactly. Exactly. So I think that allows me to speak from a place of clarity. Um, and I hope I hope also humility. I hope that is how it comes across because that is certainly how I feel. I feel like I am um I am a voice. And that is um that's part of why I'm here.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

Yes, and you're not just a voice, you're giving other people a voice, you know, and that's huge these days because a lot of people will not speak up and and share their true feelings or their true selves. We we talk a lot about this on the show, about how to use uh real life experiences, especially when it comes to pain or trauma. And we use that for fuel, we use it for stepping stones, we use it to accomplish great things, purpose, you know, purpose-driven goals, you know, and instead of resenting it or hating it or whatever, that's the wrong energy.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

And so we we transform that energy into good, purpose-led and filled things.

The Coming Out Call And Faith

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Absolutely, absolutely. It allows you, when you can do that, it allows you to pull yourself out of victimhood. And instead of sitting and thinking, oh, this is happening to me, these things are being done to me. And we've all been there, so there's zero judgment on that. But when you can flip that in your brain to be something that powers you, that is like I I am going to do this, I am going to succeed at this, I am going to create this despite or because of, or or now I have that, and I can, I have all that's mine, that's my experience that I can use, right? To share and to gift and to, you know, give other people strength, right? Like you just kind of, it's like you transmute that. So if you can think about it as like you are taking whatever that awfulness was and like pulling it through your body and transmuting it into something that's really beautiful and powerful and life-changing.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Yes, definitely. Why am I visualizing a filter?

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Our bodies are like a filter, yes. I mean, a really good filter, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

I like it. Well, I I am so curious about Chrysalis Mama.

Belonging, Love, And Messy Care

SPEAKER_01 15:14

So can you tell me a little bit about that? Yeah, absolutely. So um when I decided to kind of officially do something after my son had um, you know, I'd come out and we it was about 18, 24 months. Um, and and he had gone through a lot. We had been through a lot as a family. Um, and I just it was kind of one of my first places of like calm where I could really think and be like, okay, all of this just happened. And we learned so much. It was so hard. It was so scary. We felt so alone. There were all of these feelings. And and I had been writing about it the whole time. And I thought, well, I need a place to put this and and to share all these amazing resources that we had found, that we had worked so hard to curate, because we had really had a hard time finding them. And um, I've always been a uh I've always loved butterflies. They just I love them. And um I was just hemming and hawing about a name. Like, you know how you just kind of like are doodling and all the things. And and my email has always been since I it was the kind of the weird way that I announced I was first pregnant was I changed my email to Heather Mama. And as I then with each subsequent pregnancy, I added a number. So I ended up with Heather Mama 4 as my final like personal email address. So Heather Mama was kind of like my just nickname to people who knew me. And um, and so I was like, well, you know, let's just kind of run with that, right? So how do I work with this? And and just knowing what we had gone through had been so transformational, even at that point, right? And so there was so much meaning behind naming it my business originally Chrysalis Mama. I am now actually in the space of moving out from behind that name because I stayed Chrysalis Mama and I really was not Heather Hester ever until the past 12 months. And so I was Chrysalis Mama and I was my podcast name, and that's the way it worked. And I was comfortable there. That was that it was very scary for me to think about coming out from behind that and having being seen so fully for a million different reasons. Um but it has been something in the past year that I've been like, it's time. It is time for me to to be Heather Hester, for me to um, you know, be grateful for everything that Chrysalis Mama has accomplished. And yeah, she'll always be there.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

But that's yeah, so that's I know, and it is kind of hard, right, to brand. It's almost like you have two different brands. I mean, I'm feeling the same pain because I write as PJ Hamilton, but I speak and my company and everything else I do is in my podcast, I'm Pam Dwyer. And so I find that it's like having two clients.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Right, exactly. It is so hard. I still when things ask me to put like company name right now, I'm like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

Well, that's why we need help, yes?

SPEAKER_01 18:46

Right, exactly. I'm like, um, who can I hire to help me do that? Because I just can't do I cannot, I do not have the mental capacity to to be there right now.

Living In Fear And Learning To Regulate

SPEAKER_00 18:57

I've done marketing my whole career. And if you it's kind of like how the shoemaker has the worst-looking shoes, it's the same for marketing people, I think.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Mm-hmm. I think so. I think so. And it is funny, everybody has an opinion too.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

So I feel like So was there a um I'm just trying to wrap my head around and and be an empath here, put myself in your shoes. What was there a singular moment that changed your viewpoint from your from the first time you found out about your son to where you where it where you ended up? I mean, was there a particular moment that was huge aha? Or were you just always on board and and accepting uh just because I I try to imagine if my son or daughter came to me with that and you know, I would definitely be worried for them, but not because of them, because of the world, not accepting it just yet. And so that would be my fear, but I would not I would support them in any way that brings them happiness, you know. That would be my first thought, I think.

The Power Of The Purposeful Pause

Quiet Depletion And Self Care

SPEAKER_01 20:12

Right, right. Which it was, and but I that is a great question because it was there, it was it was both. So my answer is yes, it was both. Um, and it was both because of um the way I had been raised. I was raised in a very, very conservative evangelical home. And um I had thought that I had, you know, grown and moved, you know, kind of created my own being since I'd you know moved out, become an adult, gotten all the things. And it was in that moment um that the way that Connor came out to us was it was a little dramatic. We were uh my husband were actually we were on a couples trip and we were halfway across the country, and he ran away while we were out of town, and my parents were watching my kids. And he was 16. Um, my kids were 16, 13, 11, and 9. And my mom called us in the middle of the night and said, you know, Connor's missing. And like three or four hours with Connor missing, and me calling people and calling his phone, calling his phone, calling his phone. And um finally I'd left, I had left him a message saying I I need we're calling the police. Like I we're just so worried. And he called me back. And he's crying and um he goes, Mom, I have to tell you something. And I was like, I mean, I was just so you know how I mean as a mother, especially, like you just know that feeling. Like I was so relieved and um And I was just like, yes, you know, what's going on? He was like, I'm gay. And I was like, well, thank God, because I thought you were dead. And I literally was just like, I mean, in that I I still like, I remember everything so vividly, right? Like it was such a moment. And and he was so relieved. And yes. And I remember thinking, well, how on earth would he not think that I would be okay with this? Right. But then realizing also my parents are there. I know how my parents are with them. And and and I know that's, you know, ultimately, you know, down the road, of course, learned that's why he he ran. But at the time did not know that. But my point is that he told me that I got him home safely. We did not tell my parents at that, at that point. But I, between the time of him telling me and us getting home then to be with him, my first thought was okay, now there's no way that my child is going to hell. Because that was like the first thought that triggered. I'm like, but that that can't be so. I refuse to believe that. And like you, I am a researcher, I am a learner, I am a lover of information and facts and science. And so I was like, I'm gonna figure this out. And that was like my first thing I had to figure out. And once I figured, you know, figured it out, did did what I needed to do to get to the bottom of that mystery, I was like, yeah, this is it was like all I needed to validate everything that I had been feeling in my body up to then, but I didn't have the courage to validate it. So it took my it took my kid coming out and his courage to inspire me to be courageous, inspire me to be like, well, if my 16-year-old child can go through the hell that he went through to do that, and then the subsequent hell that he went through, I can definitely do this, right? I absolutely am gonna do my unlearning. I am gonna face all of these biases that I had. We all have them. And I am going to let go of what I need to let go of. I'm going to relearn what I need to learn. I am going to, you know, do the work that I need to do. So, yes, there was a turning point. But I all it but at the same time, it was all it was never a question of do we love and accept him? A thousand percent. It was, I need to get to the bottom of why on earth was I taught the stuff I was taught.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Right. And sometimes I think, you know, it's just like how we all talk about the d different generations, right? Generation X, generations A, and the millennial age, they're all of a different mindset. But ultimately, the bottom line is, you know, I grew up in a very traumatic, abusive childhood, which is what my book is all about. However, I knew that my mom loved me. I knew that. And so if a child knows, I think I'm I feel very strongly if if a child knows they're loved, you know, there may be some friction now and every now and then, you know, there always is in families. Oh, for sure. They'll always feel like they belong.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

Right. Because that's all they really want is to belong.

unknown 25:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

That's right.

Marriage, Grief, And Holding Family

SPEAKER_01 25:56

That's exactly right. They want to, they just need to feel seen. They need to feel loved. And and that is there's no perfect way to do that. It's going to be messy no matter what.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Right. And what a, you know, faith can be very challenging when it comes to issues like that or situations because of the way we grew up and because of what we were told. But you know, study you can research it like you probably have, and and you can you cannot find in scripture anywhere. I don't care if they pick out a verse or not, you know, God is just love to me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

Well, and that's it. And I think that's what I had to um, you know, reconcile within myself, um, was that you know, my God is is love, and that is what I choose to believe, right? And so, and and I have that right to do so, and that doesn't make me wrong. That doesn't make somebody else wrong for believing something different, right? Like that is one of the great joys of of being a human being. Um and and I think b both ways, like not only being able to have your own belief system, faith system, moral code, whatever you want to call it, but it's also celebrating that we can do that as humans, that that that is one of the things that makes us so beautiful, right? That there is all there's all of these different types of beliefs and types of faiths and types of being in the world that are just it's so fascinating. So I think, you know, obviously we could probably go on and on on that for a while, but I I to me it was such a a one of the fun pieces of of my growth was really being able to it was like just my mind was like exploding all the time with like this is extraordinary. Yes, right. And yeah, hard things are gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

Right. And and when you're curious like that, like you and I are, um we go I find that I go through seasons, right, where um maybe I feel this way about a topic today, but tomorrow I could visit with someone or connect with someone that totally throws that for a loop.

SPEAKER_03 28:36

Yeah.

Journaling, Baby Steps, And Awareness

SPEAKER_00 28:37

And so I do, like you said earlier, I do grieve, you know, my past views sometimes because it was simpler, I think. But and did you did you get any um, was there any resistance to to your son's uh news to you? I mean, did you want to resist it, not see it? Did you want it to go away, or have you always been this accepting?

SPEAKER_01 29:04

I've always been this accepting. Um, my husband too. I I we had lots of questions. Yeah. We had a lot of things we didn't understand. And a lot, but I I it has been this like curious, I've been so curious the whole time. Like every time he, you know, comes to me with something, something else. It's it's like constant learning of, oh, well, okay. I mean, I was just talking with somebody today. He went through, you know, about two years where he was seriously considering drag. Well, that was new, right? I mean, all of the pieces of that, and I was like, okay, well, let's, let's, let's do it, right? I mean, it was just I think I think for whatever reason, and I'm super grateful that that's just the way I have I'm wired or became rewired, was that I'm just curious. And and I'm, you know, messed up in a lot of ways. So I don't say that to be like, oh, look at me, I'm so great. It's that I have found it to be uh just a fascinating, and with each one of them, I'm just fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

Yes. Yes, like, you know, like where did that come from? How did it happen? How did it come to be? I mean, you know, many parents feel uh pressure, right, to respond perfectly in moments like that, I'm sure. But becoming becoming rarely starts with perfection. Yes. Right.

Naming Fear And Reframing Hopes

SPEAKER_01 30:33

Oh my goodness, yes. Oh my goodness, yes. I uh that's funny. I just did an episode on um responding on that that is perfection is first of all an illusion, as as you know, but also like they don't want a speech, they don't want, you know, 15,000 things. They really just want thank you and I love you. And you know, the more simple and validating and reassuring, that's all they want. So I think, yes, we as parents, we do put a lot of pressure upon ourselves to um chase that illusion of perfection. Um, and also to be the like the, well, I'm the parent. I'm supposed to know everything. No, you don't, you're not, and that's okay. And and it's okay to to model that to your kids, to say, uh, you know, when you don't know the answer to something, I I don't know the answer to that, but I'm I will go find it out. Let's go, let's go figure it out together. I'll go figure it out and I'll come back to you. I there's it's just not realistic for anyone to know everything. You're not always going to have the answer, and that's okay that you don't. And that like models so many different things to your kids that you don't even realize. Um, and it makes you so much more accessible to them. And um, you know, they will come to you for so many more things when they know that it's safe. It's safe, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I I say it reflects well on the parent because your child your 16-year-old child has more of a self identity than most adults. I mean, w we don't fig we can't even figure out who we are because we're so busy checking off all the boxes and doing and going and you know, identity gets lost. But for a young person to say they know who they are, I mean, that's that's confidence, that's that's self-esteem, that's all the good things. You know, but it's it's riddled in fear and anxiety on both ends, I'm sure. Which has to be the challenge, I think, and then the belief, like the faith.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

You know. But we we chatted a little bit about that. But was there a a moment when you realized you could either stay in the fear or the worry of the situation, or you could grow. I mean, did you know right away you could grow from this, or did it take some time?

From Surviving To Serving Publicly

SPEAKER_01 33:28

I think for a while I lived in both. I was terrified and I was trying to learn and grow as much as I could. And and I and I think that was partially because when he once he came out, he it was like this sharp like drop off of his mental health. Of, I mean, he just went into a place that was so which you don't normally think when you have affirming parents, like the equation is you have affirming parents, then the coming out is supposed to be easier. Not so much. Um, for you know, reasons that I I talk about in other places, but it we didn't know that at the time, and it was really so we did I did sit for a while in this place of like of terror and of trying to figure out the next thing, like, oh, okay, this is happening. Now I need to to understand why this is happening. How can I support him? What's going on? What does he need? Um, and and I think there was a piece of that too, to be honest, that was in some ways easier for me to be in that logical place of figuring out than in that emotional internal space of just sitting in the discomfort and letting it be dis uncomfortable. And um, and so it did take some time for me to connect my head and my body to let them be reconnected, right? Like I had separated them for so long. And so to allow that to happen, and once I could, once I was able to do that, then I was able to start regulating. But that did take some time.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

Yeah. And and on this show, we talk about the pause, right? The purposeful pause. And it's it's that space that you were mentioning between reaction and response. Yeah you know, and and in our in our world, it's like unhealthy urges or binges or behaviors.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

But getting to that point of saying, okay, I need to pause, right? That's harder than it sounds. Oh, yeah. Just taking a pause and a breath to think clearly, bring the frontal part of your brain online so that the lower part of the chatter is not defeating your purpose.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

You know, but I think that that space you mentioned is real important.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

Yeah. It is. It is. It is um honestly, I think it is relationship saving.

SPEAKER_00 36:17

Yes.

Advocacy, Boundaries, And Human Rights

SPEAKER_01 36:18

It is it is life saving. It is the advice I give my 18-year-old every time he walks out the door is please just pause.

SPEAKER_03 36:28

Take a breath.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

Take a breath before you do anything. Take a breath. Take that pause and think good decision, bad decision. I mean, he's an 18-year-old male, so uh we know how much the frontal lobe is developed at this point. Not a lot. So that pause is a really tough request from his mother. But um, you know, I I also feel like the more I say it, he's he hears it in his head.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

He hears my voice. They hear you a lot more than they hear their parents more than we realize, you know.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

They do. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 37:09

And we're human too. I I don't know what age kids usually are when they figure out, wow, my parent is human as well, because we look strong and able on the outside, right? But on the inside, you know, we're quietly exhausted. We call it quiet depletion. I'm doing a lot of research in that right now. It's just I'm very passionate about it. Because there's a huge percentage of, especially women, that are quietly depleted. They're successful, they're doing everything right, checking all the boxes. But on the inside, they're just lost and depleted and exhausted. So they turn to other things for a temporary release.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

Right.

unknown 37:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 37:51

You know, they're afraid. They're afraid of saying the wrong thing, of losing connections, you know, if they express themselves honestly. So that's what it looks like. I think in parents, too, that are navigating identity shifts in their families. I mean, that's got to be, you know, a really difficult thing, but it's only as difficult as they make it, correct?

One Small Shift: Practice The Pause

SPEAKER_01 38:16

Yes. Yes. And I think, you know, one of the most helpful pieces is a couple things, but you know, knowing that you had there there is support and help available for you. You're not alone in this. And it can feel very, very isolating. Um, but I think to your point that you just made is that um before this happened for us uh self-care was a foreign concept for me. I mean, I was absolutely in a state of quiet depletion, always. And you cannot go through crisis and quiet depletion. It is just physically unsustainable. And so I had to learn how to take care of myself within that. What did I need to be able to show up and do all of the work that I needed to do internally, take care of my other three children, support my oldest who was going through all of the things he was going through, and and you know, keep our marriage together. And that was, I mean, that was something as a total aside, but we in like that first six months, we had met with um an ed consultant, educational consultant, and she met with us separately from Connor, and she said to my husband and I, well, um, most couples' marriages don't last through things like this. So I hope you can find a good counselor. And we were both like, oh gosh, what? And um, so that was kind of like to your point a little bit ago when we were talking about like taking those things and letting them be fuel for the fire. That could, I mean, we still to this day are like, mm-hmm, well, we're still married. Like we our marriage is better, you know, these things, but it certainly was an awareness piece, yes, but it was also like, okay, all the things you have to do to care to care, right?

unknown 40:29

Yeah.

Becoming, Boots On, And Next Steps

SPEAKER_00 40:30

Congratulations to you for you and your hubby, you know, getting through this stronger because there are um even with other issues, you know, couples sometimes don't communicate with one another properly, you know, like they don't they don't watch for the the emotional warning signs or you know, ask questions like, where is this shame showing up? What is it from? Um, and why are we so afraid to admit that we're having these issues with anyone else? We're just keeping it all here locked up inside our home. Right. You know, you've got to seek counseling, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_02 41:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:07

And because what happens, what happens when they when you ignore those signals, you know, that's division, you know, the connection is lost, and we don't choose to grow from it together.

How To Find Heather And Closing

SPEAKER_01 41:20

Right. And I think oftentimes you don't it happens so quietly. Yes. Because you're so distracted with other things, um, especially if you are in any kind of crisis, whatever it may be, whether it's with a child or a job or a family, you know, extended family member, you know, whatever. Um, it's interesting during all of this. My um sister was diagnosed with frontal temporal dementia. And and she at at age 41, which was oh my. And she and I were very, very close. She lived close by. She did, she was never married, didn't have kids. And so she was like, you know, the fun aunt with my kids. And um, she was super close with Connor. And that was one of the things that I first like knew something was wrong with her, was when I told her her response to Connor coming out was so unlike her. Um, and then, you know, kind of subsequently, the years of her illness were really, really hard. And and they, you know, certainly coincided with a lot of those first years of of Connor's coming out that were so difficult. And over time, it it was such an interesting, you know, now that I can look back on it all, um, she passed two years ago. Oh, so young. So young, so young. Um, but it really, I think, also put things into such perspective and allowed um, you know, for my husband and I, that's what I, you know, I was thinking about that. Like the one of the reasons we bonded so much, we had not only what was going on with Connor, but in trying to like keep our family of six and like really, really working on that, you know, doing whatever we could, right, to keep our family together. My sister got sick, both of his parents got sick. Like we had all of these like people who we just loved, right? And our family members that were so important. And so I think there were those pieces that like obviously could have, it could have just destroyed our relationship, but it it didn't, thank goodness. And and we were able to, you know, come together and and not only the both of us grieve, but like teach our kids how to grieve, right? Like allow them to grieve and allow them to be part of um, you know, each of those, those people's processes, you know, my sister, my father. In law, my mother-in-law. And um, and I think that was something quite extraordinary now, too, that I look back and I think it is. I I'm I'm grateful that we didn't just try to shut that down, right? Like shut that emotion down, shut the all of the feelings around that down, not talking about it, not discussing it, not you know, being messy about it, because it's messy. And um yeah, it's just uh it is such a all those those layers of things that you think, okay, I will write this in my next book. Yay. So it didn't make it in the first one. A lot of this got cut from the first one.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

Do you find that writing is like therapy, right? Like journaling. A thousand percent. Oh my gosh, don't you? Yes. Oh, yes. Actually, I love it so journaling so much. I'm a huge advocate for it. Yeah, I put it every few chapters in my book. My real raw journal notes from therapy. Oh, I love that. To show how broken, you know, I really was at first. And you could see the feelings. So important, though.

SPEAKER_01 45:15

I mean, the more raw and real that we can be, I think that that's that's so helpful to anybody who's reading or listening or can't.

SPEAKER_00 45:28

Yes, and generally I always tell people it's like baby steps, right? It's taking little small steps each a day instead of waiting for this huge crash moment. Right. You know, every day you're addressing what's what's what you feel you're struggling with.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

And right. The steps are sometimes you're just writing it's a day and I'm here and I'm breathing. And I'm grateful, right? Like sometimes there's nothing like there you're just so completely depleted that you can't, that there's just nothing, right? But even writing that is so helpful because it it gives you like a place of like, okay, this is where I am. And um, it helps you with your you know awareness, it helps you with like getting yourself grounded. There are so many little pieces that come from that that you don't even realize at the time are fantastic. I too am a huge proponent of journaling.

SPEAKER_00 46:24

So the brain loves when you we call it a brain dump. Yeah, the brain loves when you write it on paper, everything in your head, because especially as as a mom, we have a lot going on in there. And so if you just put it all out there on paper.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

I mean, and it doesn't have to be complete sentences, you don't need to use punctuation or capitals. It can be just like your kids text you. No capitals, no punctuation.

SPEAKER_00 46:51

You can just pretend you're you're giving chat GPT an idea.

SPEAKER_01 46:55

Exactly. Yeah, totally. Just like talk it. And yeah, that's the other thing. If you are not a writer, like if you don't, some people don't like to physically write, you can speak it. Speak it, find it, speak it into chat GPT, speak it into your notes app, whatever. So I love it.

SPEAKER_02 47:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:14

So let me ask you a question. Um, I always ask my uh listeners to, you know, I give them a heads up about who I'm about to speak with and visit with. And the one question that seemed to come up repeatedly was um, what would you say to the parent who loves their child deeply, but still feels scared? Um I mean, they're they're trying to to feel the way they think is right for their child, the best for their child, but they're still very scared.

SPEAKER_01 47:46

I would ask them first what they're scared of.

SPEAKER_02 47:52

What is the fear?

SPEAKER_01 47:53

What is the fear? And I would really explore that with them and try to, you know, just guide them, sit with them as they kind of pulled that apart. Because it takes a little pulling apart to to figure out where that's coming from. But I um when you're able to name that fear, I think sometimes like just the fear is bigger than like what the actual fear is, if that makes sense. When you can name it and say, oh, well, I am a I'm I'm really afraid of their future. What their future is going to be like. I'm afraid that they're going to be bullied. I am afraid that they're not gonna ever find real love. I'm afraid that they won't be accepted. I'm afraid that they won't be safe. Right. And a lot what what and it could be all of those, right? Just keep I I would that's that is the first thing. That I think that's the biggest thing that I would do because once you're able to really process through that, you can let it go.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

Yeah. I always tell people to start thinking instead of I'm a a web designer by trade. Oh my life has really transitioned into this. But uh but I used to always say when I'd ask them about the design that they were thinking about, you know, what is their vision? Yeah, and they would always tell me what they don't want. They would never tell me they didn't know what they wanted, they just knew what they didn't want.

SPEAKER_02 49:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:35

And so I would think if I put myself in a parent's in that place, I think I would try to focus on what I wanted for my child that was good. You know, what yeah, what do I wish would have what happiness do I wish for them? You know, instead of focusing on all that fear, you know. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 49:54

Absolutely. I think that they're yes, it's I think it's both because the the fear um does need to be processed through in order to let it go. You can't just say, oh, well, I I don't want to deal with it because I don't like it. So I'm gonna put it over there because it's gonna come back and rear its ugly head. It's just gonna sit there. So I do, but yes, to your point, I think that you know, each one of those statements can be flipped too, right? Um, I'm scared they're not gonna find love. What do you want? I want them to find love. Yes, I want them to find friendship, I want them to find their people, I want them to um be find happiness, whatever true happiness means for them. That's what I want, right? So all of those statements can be uh flipped to the positive, to what you really do want. But I think at the same time, you do have to look at, you do have to name those fears in order to let them go.

SPEAKER_00 51:01

Yes, to speak them out loud and then push them away. That's right. Almost like a new pattern for the brain.

SPEAKER_01 51:07

It is, it really is. That's so beautiful. And then I I don't need I see you, I appreciate what you're trying to do, and I don't need you. Thank you. Thank you for your service. Goodbye.

SPEAKER_00 51:22

Goodbye, dropkick. But that's that's absolutely beautiful though. I love that. I love how you turned something so personal into leadership. So how did you shift from surviving to serving?

SPEAKER_01 51:43

It was very organic. Um it truly was just one small thing led to the next thing, and it is something that just has presented itself as what I am supposed to be doing. And uh, you and I were talking earlier about being introverts. I mean, no introvert in the world goes out seeking to be the face of anything. Hello, hello, hello, please come look at me. Um, so it trust me when I say that I um I I have tried to hide from from what I'm supposed to be doing. Um, and it keeps popping up. So that is and and now, you know, I have found a way to be me with it and with with what I do, and just um it's just so important. I feel it drives me 24 hours of the day. It is rare that I'm not thinking about it. And um my whole family is involved in in what I in what I do. And um, you know, of course, these conversations span many topics too, right? Like it's not just about being queer in the world. It is there are many topics that are that are in line or aligned with this. So um yeah, it's just well, your story helps others, and it's so beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 53:30

I just love it. And I couldn't wait, you know, for this episode because people need to hear from moms and parents, parents, you know, how they're dealing with this. And you know, there's also the fear of uh stepping into advocacy publicly, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01 53:51

Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:53

How did how are you dealing with that?

SPEAKER_01 53:54

How did you deal with that? That was probably the hardest piece. And I think it was hardest because of where I came from. Um the my the family that I grew up in, the religious systems that I grew up in, um, knowing like the thought of for the longest time I would run things that I was doing through the filter of what would my parents say if they heard this? What is my brother gonna say?

SPEAKER_00 54:27

Of course, only because it matters, it matters what they think. It matters to you.

SPEAKER_01 54:31

Totally, it does. And um the one person that would have been fully supportive of my work would have been my sister, which is like one of the one more just tragedy. But I um, you know, there are I had to become and I had to to again do enough of that inner work to be okay with my parents not um affirming my children, approving of the work that I do, um, believing some pretty sad things about me and about my family, and just being okay and just saying, and I and it's it's taken um time to get to the place of I am sad that they feel that way. That is sad to me that they are missing out on who I actually was always meant to be, right? Like these extraordinary grandchildren who are so interesting and fun and um real. And it is something that I and I think now when I when I do speak, and I think it's what's helped me speak with more clarity, with more conviction, with more groundedness, with more confidence. The more that I do it, the more that I just know this is what I'm meant to be doing in the world. And and I've done everything that I can. And some people just can't let go of the fear, right? The fear is too strong. And um, and and that is the case for them. And so it just is, you know, it it just is. And I, for whatever reason, that that was a challenge that I was I was meant to overcome.

SPEAKER_00 56:33

Well, and let's face it, you know, to stay grounded when someone strongly disagrees with you or your emotions or your beliefs. I mean, look at our politics. Wow, you know, no one can have any differing opinions. It's scary now, but apparently, I mean, so you you do stay grounded when someone strongly disagrees with you. It sounds like you don't give them the negative, you any energy to the negative, you just let it go. I do my best.

SPEAKER_01 57:06

Yes. Yes. But it depends on I where it gets really hard is when it it becomes personal. Disagreements are disagreements, right? I can disagree on per on policy all day long. That does not bother me. That is not a difficult thing. When the disagreements become about um human rights, that's hits differently.

SPEAKER_00 57:33

Ooh, it hits a nerve, yes? Yeah. Because it hits home. It hits person.

SPEAKER_01 57:38

To me, it's a little bit more difficult to be like, oh, well, we're just gonna agree to disagree. Um to me, human rights are not um debatable.

SPEAKER_02 57:46

So No.

SPEAKER_01 57:48

Um I think, but I think too, right circling back to the very first point, what fuels us, right? Like we could say, oh, it's too big, it's too scary, it's too awful, it's too horrible. I'm going to to curl up in a little ball and not deal. Or we can say, it's big and scary and awful. And what do I need to do next? What is the next right move? What is the next thing that I can do?

SPEAKER_00 58:21

Yeah, asking yourself, what's the right thing to do? We all know we talk a lot about that, you know, even with uh binging, you know, overeating, over pleasing, overworking, all the things that we do in excess, and we know it's not good for us. We're smart, we've educated ourselves, we know what it doesn't serve us, but we still do it. Yeah. It's crazy. So it's crazy. What's the one small shift you they that that people that are um say scared, what's the what's a small shift they can make this week?

SPEAKER_01 58:54

Well, I hate to take yours because it's so good, but I I use this one a lot is the the pause. Um that learning how to pause is so important because when you and it works for so many different things, right? When you find yourself feeling scared that that fear is overcoming you, if you can remain connected to yourself and pause, it will allow you to, you know, fear puts you into that the fight, flight, freezer, fawn, right? And that's when everything gets fuzzy. That's when you can't breathe. That's when, you know, you you disassociate and we do all the things, right? Because we're in survival mode. If you can stop that, if you can take that pause so you don't throw yourself into that, huge difference.

SPEAKER_00 59:50

I love that you have spoke that you talk about the pause because what's someone with your expertise is just validating how important it is. You know, the more voices we get out there about pausing, taking a breath, think before you speak or act.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:06

Gosh, I mean, the pause is so magical. It can be used in so many different ways. Yeah, I could not agree more with you. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:15

So I have before we close, I I could probably talk to you about this all day. Wonderful. Um, but when you look back at the woman you were at the beginning of your journey, of this journey, what would you tell her now? What would what are you what are you still becoming? Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:38

I would tell her, just buckle your seatbelt, my friend. Like you are, you are becoming. You are finally becoming. Like this is um, you know, I did live in a state of what I realized was a state of just low-level fear and anxiety for so long, and all of the shoulds and all of the people pleasing and all of those things, right? And this was that um, you know, defining moment that like snapped me out of it. And so I would definitely look back and be like, get ready, because your whole life is about to shift in ways that you never imagined.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:22

Here in Texas, we say, get your boots on. That's right. That's right. Put your boots on, get ready. That's exactly right. Yes. Well, tell can we before we close, um, can we just tell everyone how to find your work, how to connect with you? How can we find you? Of course.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:42

So the easiest way to find all of the things that I do is through my website, which is heatherhester.net. And on there you can connect with me. You can find my podcast, which is more human, more kind. You can learn about all of the work that I do with clients, with the world, with all the things.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:05

And my book is on there as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:09

Yes. And we'll make sure to put all this in the show notes, everybody. So if you're stumbling around looking for a pen, don't worry about it. We're gonna put it in the show notes, show notes, and you can find her. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:19

I mean, Heather Hester, it's it's I try to make it as easy as possible. The thing that I will say that I just really quickly, which you'll laugh, yeah. This other thing about chrysalis mama, nobody can spell Chrysalis. So like that was I still do too. I mean, and I've like been like writing it on everything for almost 10 years. So yes, Heather Hester's easy.

unknown 1:02:43

Perfect. Perfect.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:45

So to everyone listening, just remember your fear has a story. Your resistance has a story, your exhaustion has a story. And becoming doesn't mean you were wrong before. It means that you're growing. Heather's journey reminds us that love evolves. Identity evolves. And courage often begins with a quiet pause. I have so many more, but you know, maybe we'll do a part two.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:17

Send in questions. We'll we'll do a part two. Um, this was so wonderful and such a delight.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:23

Thank you so much. Thank you, Heather. And you don't have to fix everything, y'all. You just have to delay the reaction long enough to choose with intention. I'm Pam Dwyer. This is Delay the Binge, and I'll see you next time.