Michelle E. Dickinson Part 2 | High Functioning, Quietly Depleted; Now What? | Ep62

We move from theory to application with Michelle E. Dickinson to expose the early signals of burnout, why high performers miss them, and how micro shifts restore energy and agency. We trade grind myths for practical recovery, the purposeful pause, and boundaries that stick.

• burnout as nervous system overload, not failure
• early markers hidden by high functioning
• myths that glorify overwork and self-neglect
• detachment, urges and state-driven behavior
• the purposeful pause and five-minute practices
• micro shifts for recovery and traction
• simple tracking to spot patterns
• prevention over crisis tactics
• sleep protection, boundaries and environment design
• preserving agency in demanding workplaces
• why smart people decide poorly when exhausted
• compassionate reframes that sustain change

Michelle E. Dickinson is a business advisor and executive coach helping leaders create success without sacrificing well-being.

🌐 Learn more about Michelle:
https://resilienceasalifestyle.com/

🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-edickinson/

This is Delay the Binge™ — formerly The Plus One Theory Podcast.

Delay the Binge™ explores the patterns behind urges, habits, stress patterns, burnout, and Quiet Depletion™ — and what happens in the pause between impulse and action, where real behavior change begins.

Through conversations with leading experts in neuroscience, psychology, resilience, and human behavior, you’ll gain practical insight into how the brain shapes reactions — and how small, intentional shifts create lasting behavior change.

Full video episodes available on YouTube.

Pam Dwyer | Speaker
Learn more: DelayTheBinge.com

Storytelling that transforms. Healing that lasts.
From bestselling author Pam Dwyer (PJ Hamilton)

Books + speaking: PamDwyer.com

Delay the Binge™ is a trademark of TPKK Concepts LLC
© Pam Dwyer. All rights reserved.

Transcript

Why Part Two Matters

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Today's episode is part two of my conversation with Michelle E. Dickinson, resilience and burnout expert, TEDx speaker, and founder of Trifecta Mental Health. And I want to tell you why this conversation needed two parts. Because Michelle's work sits in a space that is both deeply human and incredibly practical. This isn't just about understanding burnout. It's about recognizing the subtle patterns that lead us there long before we ever call it stress. In part one, we explored resilience as a lifestyle, the illusion of powering through, and why so many people lose their sense of agency when stress quietly accumulates. In part two, today, we're moving into application. We're talking about what depletion actually looks like in a daily life, why functioning doesn't always mean thriving, and how small shifts, often microscopic shifts, have radically changed how we think, feel, and respond. Because whether you call it burnout, overwhelm, or quiet depletion, the experience underneath it is something almost everyone recognizes. Michelle, welcome back. I'm so glad we get to continue this conversation. Me too. Thank you for having me, Pam. You're so welcome. In part one, we laid a strong foundation. So let's go a little deeper today. What do you think? What do you think people still misunderstand most about burnout and resilience?

SPEAKER_01 1:44

I think, you know, people take this as a personal failure when in reality it's just their nervous system and a workload overload of their nervous system. And and really it's not person, it's not like a personal character flaw. Right? I get it. And it starts so so much earlier in in the grand scheme of things, like with emotional exhaustion, detachment, cognitive fog, all, you know, while it appears their performance is perfectly fine and intact.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Exactly, exactly. And I see that a lot in women, I noticed, you know.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

Because we're busy doing doing the doing the do.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

We are.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Yeah. But there's some myths that drive this problem. What do you think some of those are?

SPEAKER_01 2:36

You know, I think a lot of people, no, it the thing that really bothers me is like it used to be a badge of honor for you to work so hard and grind it out. It was like a badge of honor. I I pulled, you know, 60 hours of work last week. It doesn't like it doesn't glorifying it doesn't make it okay. So I think we need people to understand that strong people, the the myth that that I know to that I hear a lot is strong people don't burn out. Only low performers burn out. When in real when in reality it's the high achievers that are actually the ones at risk because they're the ones saying yes and they just keep taking on more and they keep ignoring their limits.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Yeah, I always have this visualization for myself. I know I would visualize like I'm I'm a plate, right? And all of my coworkers or my, you know, management would just be putting things on my plate, literally. And they're like, oh, wow, I can just keep putting things on Pam's plate and she just keeps cranking it out. Right.

Myths That Keep High Achievers Stuck

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Right. Or, you know, the other thing I've heard is, well, you know, if I just managed, if I just got a planner or if I just got like a new system that I put in place to help me manage my time better, I won't burn out. But that's not the reality. You know, burnout is a lack of recovery. It's a lack of stopping filling your tank so you can keep going. Like I use this analogy of like an Olympic athlete. It's so perfect right now with the Olympics going on. An Olympic athlete isn't going to run a race and then turn around and run a race. No, they need the downtime to recover, to reset, to come back and be able to run another race.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Exactly. And sometimes, you know, especially with athletes, I noticed, I mean, they they did they burn out, but what do their behaviors look like? I mean, it looks like they're so healthy and together, and they're not, they're not. They're mentally exhausted. So that does affect their physical performance, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:47

Yeah, I think too, um it's the disciplined self-neglect. It's the continuous, you know, sacrificing of what the the staples of what you need, like the sleep, right? The the time to disconnect and engage in something enjoyable, something fun that's just mindless that will help you, you know, step away from a sense of responsibility. Um it's also self-reliance and never asking for help and always being like, I'm good, I'm good, I don't need anyone else's help. Um yeah, and it's it's this tendency that these high performers people tend to have to just say, Yeah, I'll take on that one more thing, you know, even though it's quietly, you know, causing them to lose their joy and their balance.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Right. And so I have, um, just from my own personal research and just reflecting on myself, you know, I find that I'm I'm pretty high functioning and I'm very driven. And so a lot of times what I'll do, it's not perfectionism, it really isn't, but I don't recognize the depletion. Like I know I'm always tired, right? But I think that it's something else causing it. Like I'm not getting enough vitamins or I'm not eating well, or I should really take that three-mile walk every day in order to have the energy or the the awareness mentally to function in this way. Like I'm constantly blaming myself. But from your lens, you know, does a high functioning depletion, what is what does that really look like to you? I mean, like, does it look like that, or do you see other things?

Signs Of High-Functioning Depletion

SPEAKER_01 6:34

Yeah, I mean, it's someone who still performs even though they're on fumes, right? So that what does that mean? Like from an emotional perspective, it often shows up as they're just sensitive, irritable over little things, right? They have a short fuse, right? There's an impact. There's always going to be an impact. So emotionally, there's a short fuse. There's maybe even some low-grade cynicism going on that maybe wasn't there before. Maybe there's some emotional numbness or flatness going through the motions and just sort of not having any real joy or contentment in what you're doing. Um, and even a sense of loneliness or disconnection. These are these are like the emotional aspects. But then there's the cognitive side of things, which is, you know, you're unable to concentrate. You have like mental fog, um, you know, those little things that that can definitely, definitely you can start to feel.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

Yes, I definitely can relate to that because if I'm pushing, pushing, pushing, then brain fog is definitely an issue, like where I can't focus or concentrate. And I notice I've had uh employees before that I recognize that in. Okay. Because one day they're so sharp and they're so in tune and they're on fire, you know? And then the next day they're coming and I don't know what happened, but they're exhausted. They are depleted and I can see it in their work. Right. And so their decision making is affected. They're they are short-tempered and emotional.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

And there's no uh boundary at all between those two things.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Yeah. They don't have the ability to stay self-regulated because they're depleted, you know, like self-regulation takes something to be to be able to handle yourself in stressful situations, it really takes something, but you have to feel like you can maintain your regulation. And the only way that happens is if you are feeling good, like you've gotten what you need to be able to navigate that.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

Right. And I really want you to share with us how dangerous it can be physically, because I wanted to share with you that just this right at the end of last year, we went on a cruise and I felt terrible. I felt exhausted, tired, and I thought, wow, I really need this vacation to focus. But we went with some friends and I just felt I had this headache, my stomach hurt. I thought, oh, I guess I have a the a stomach bug or something, or I'm seasick, or you know, I just kept putting it off because I didn't want to ruin everyone else's time, but I felt terrible. I kept, believe it or not, I kept taking B. I don't know if you know what a BC powder is. It's like a strong aspirin powder with caffeine. And I said, Oh, I need my energy. So I kept taking those BC powders. And you know what it turns out to be is an a bleeding ulcer, which those BC powders are the worst thing for it. But I kept ignoring the signals of depletion because I wanted to continue to perform and to be, you know, and keep going. Like, I'm okay, I'm okay. And I really was, I was bleeding to death.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

But that's detachment, you know, like that's a perfect example of detachment and and overriding the subtle cues from your body. You know, I think overachievers, you know, will start to almost, you know, shut out what is screaming to them. And the body is pretty impressive. It will stop you if you won't stop it. It'll like you learned, right? Like the body will shut down and say, You you see, you need to slow down, you need to stop because you're not listening to the signals, right? Um, you're more committed to overachieving than you are in tapping in and listening to what I need in order to keep you going.

Detachment And Ignored Body Cues

SPEAKER_00 10:31

Right. And we're gonna talk about how people can do that, but I did want to revisit again that um urges or binging, you know, with overthinking. Those are reactive behaviors, and it's not a failure. It's just your brain trying to tell you or, you know, or seek comfort. Because the brain, the brain is a powerful thing, but it is going to lead you to a temporary fix, like my BC powders. It was a temporary fix. And I didn't even use my common sense, you know, oh, this isn't really good for my stomach, you know, I could get an ulcer. But I just wanted the quick fix so that I could temporarily perform.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

Yeah. I mean, I think, I think it's so easy for us to get sucked into those urges. Um, you know, even like the binge scrolling or like food or shopping, like we're looking for a sense of escapism when we're doing those things. And it's just another symptom of being detached. You know, overthinking is often like a form of self-protection. So is the so are the other things I mentioned, right? When the system isn't feeling like you're listening. Um, it's it's just super important. And I and you know, and that's you know, one of the reasons why I am a big advocate, even for like five-minute meditations, is you gotta plug into yourself. You know, we are so plugged into the world around us, the devices, the people, you know, the work that we're doing, that we just never stop to plug into ourselves, you know, and and that's why it's so important, because it gives us a sense of respite almost when we go within that you might actually find more fulfilling and satisfying than this, the urges that you succumb to when you are getting involved with like scrolling or shopping or eating. Like, but you wouldn't know unless you gave it a try and and could appreciate that feeling that you have in meditation. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Meditation, and then that's what I mean with delay the binge, you know, the purposeful pause. Yeah. You know, the pause gives you a moment to turn in and reflect on yourself and what's happening and what's really going on. Yeah. You know, why are you reaching for this unhealthy thing or you know, too much of something? Is is your body just trying to communicate with you, saying, okay, this is too much?

Urges, Escapism, And The Pause

SPEAKER_01 13:05

In in people's defense, we live in a world where we're taught to grab something external instead of something internal. So it makes sense logically. You know, we're raised in this environment. Go and buy this, go and try this, go and do this, like reaching outward, reaching outward. But like what you're saying with like the pause, it's like go inward.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

We want you to go inward and just take a moment to reflect it and like I love how you frame those uh the micro shifts. Yeah. Because they they remove that intimidation and they help someone understand in just little baby steps how to get to that place. So if someone feels stretched thin, what are those small shifts that can create the biggest impact? What do you think?

SPEAKER_01 13:59

If people are feeling stretched thin, the last thing you want to do is give them something or challenge them to overhaul their life. Okay. You're setting them, you're setting them up for failure. So, what I've witnessed is to help people give their nervous system some small, repeatable experiences that will help them feel safe and start to recover, right? So it doesn't have to be like this big lavish plan. It could just be like, I'm gonna go for a 10-minute walk. I'm gonna, I'm gonna get up 15 minutes early tomorrow morning and um sit in prayer or meditation or just listen to that author I really love and makes me feel good when I listen to them. It's little drops in your bucket that shift the needle a little bit at a time, but ultimately will get you to start to feel better because if you do tiny consistent micro shifts, you're going to create a different, a different trajectory for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Yes. And I love it so much. And what I try to tell people though is even if you're making these micro shifts, you've got to have some way of seeing the difference, right? Like, like you may be trying one thing and it's not producing what you want, it's not creating the result you're looking for. It's not helping you, it's not making a difference. But the only way you can know that, I I am a huge advocate for journaling. And most people, almost every time, Michelle, they don't want to do it because they think that's just one more thing on their list they have to do. But if they just it takes seconds, like the micro just a small step and just just writing one sentence, you know, you know, I tried the pause and it still didn't work. And I still ate the chocolate cake or and I still did this thing that was unhealthy. Um, and so they don't still don't understand. So they either give up or they just are tired of trying and not making it not making a difference. But I challenge them all the time to just write one little sentence for two weeks solid without missing a day.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

Yeah.

Micro Shifts That Actually Stick

SPEAKER_00 16:09

You know, about their day. And then they can actually see the patterns that their brain has, whether it's healthy patterns or unhealthy patterns. There's a pattern there because the brain loves the patterns and it goes there. But you've got to figure out how it can fit in in your day and in your routine so that you can actually see it through.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

Or give yourself permission to try different things, right? Like fine. Okay, so fine. It's not one size fits all. The journaling is a great idea. But if someone's not going to do that, well, what else could you try? You know, like the definition of insanity is hoping something changes without changing something. Like you have to be willing to try something different if you want a different outcome. So if it's not that, then what could you do differently and and and what could you start to measure in terms of how you feel from doing the thing that you tried on? You know, it's you just have to figure out what works and meet people where they are with what they feel comfortable trying, you know?

SPEAKER_00 17:06

Well, and you've helped so many people with this. And and I just I wonder, what do you see most like what helps regulate stress the quickly? What do most people find regulates their stress?

SPEAKER_01 17:18

I mean, is there like a majority of something so there I have in the moment uh strategies that I teach for my de-escalation training? Um everyone wants an in the moment solution, but the reality is if you come to the conflict or the stressful situation with your cup full, you don't need those strategies because you're going to be able to handle the situation. So I'm all about prevention. I'm all about make sure you get enough sleep, make sure that you start the day on your terms, that you drink enough water, that you have enough energy in your tank to be able to handle it. You know, stress is inevitable. It's happening every day. You know it's coming.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

What you can do is be better prepared to handle it. Exactly. Adjust intelligently. I've heard you'd say that before.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Because that that aligns with what I teach as well, because we don't want to add pressure.

unknown 18:14

Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Because then it's it's not it's not gonna make a difference. And and that's what we're striving for, right? So when someone is depleted, their brain doesn't exactly cooperate. So can you explain what happens to thinking, impulse control, and reasoning under sustained stress?

Prevention Beats In-The-Moment Hacks

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Oh yeah, I mean, like it's it's very interesting. I I like to use the example of uh, you know, when there's too much on your plate, it's very easy to feel like you have lost all sense of empowerment. It's it's just so easy to because then you catastrophize, right? Like if one area of your life is going bad or one challenging situation is occurring in one area of your life, you then start to like, you know, you make it bleed all over the other areas of your life. So it's just really important for you to try to avoid getting there, right? Like, I mean, we know that stress can have irreversible damage on us mentally and physically. So why wait? Why not find things that you know are going to help you, whether it's like going and kicking the crap out of a bag and boxing or going for a run or whatever. Like, have those things in your pockets. So, you know, you do things that are difficult on your own accord, making everything else that comes up difficult feel not so big.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Right. And and it's not just high performers, right? It's it's most people. Most of us are smart enough to know what we should or should not do. We know that, you know, moving our bodies is going to keep us limber and strong. You know, rest, sleep gives our brain ri the rest it needs to be, you know, aware and in tune to what's happening the next day and on top of things. But but just because we know it, we still make the poor decision of not doing it. And and I really feel strongly that it's because we're so exhausted. So I mean, and so do you think do you think that's why smart people make poor decisions when they're exhausted?

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Totally, totally. And like absolutely, and you're not giving your best, you're not giving your best to the situation. So, you know, you gotta always, I always get people to think about the impact. Like, what's the impact on your job? What's the impact on your customers? What's the impact on your colleagues? What's the impact on the business, right? Like, if you can understand the impact of not, then you'll start to go, oh, well, if I'm not gonna make sharp decisions, I might actually do more damage than good, right? And I like to turn this more on a personal level too, because yeah, we all want to be like successful business people, but like what about the person that signed up to do life with you at home, who's waiting for you to come home and to actually just engage in life and like have an experience with you. And you can't give them that, right? Like, so yes, it's for you, but it's also for the very people that are counting on you, the ones that love you, the ones that they just want the best version of you. Like we owe that to the people that love us.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Well, can we talk a minute about why habits feel louder and and everything feels harder when we're exhausted? Is, you know, what's the what's the neuroscience of that? I mean, it's the lower brain versus the frontal cortex part of the brain. You know, I really love understanding that and hearing from experts, you know, their thoughts on that.

Exhaustion And Poor Decisions

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Yeah, I think um I don't know the the neuroscience behind it. I just I I know that it's really hard for us to, you know, to have a positive outlook and a positive mindset when we're overwhelmed. Right. Right. The fundamentals of what I teach are I want you to feel as good mentally and physically as possible. When you feel good physically, it naturally spills over into your mental outlook on life and your experience of life. So it all comes down to what can I be doing that's going to help me feel good physically? Because I know that's going to directly correlate into my mental health. So why not stop and reflect and say, what is that? You know, and what can I do differently? Because everyone deserves to have a good experience. Like we weren't put on the planet to work and pay bills. Like you deserve joy, you deserve enthusiasm, you deserve, you know, all the good stuff in life.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Yeah. Yeah. And we constantly say your brain under stress is not your brain at its best. No, it's not. It's yeah. Yeah. So I want to talk about a moment my listeners know intimately. We talk a lot about it, and I get a lot of, you know, insight from them, you know, on the urge moment. So from your perspective, what's actually happening when someone feels that powerful pull towards something they know won't serve them?

SPEAKER_01 23:26

I think your your mind is just looking for escape. It's just looking for an escape and something to give it relief, to not have to experience what is being experienced. When I mean, like I I'm just thinking about myself, like when I go for the chocolate cake. Well, like, what am I avoiding? Right. Like, what am I avoiding? What's bothering me? What's missing? But, you know, if if you're not in a good head space, you're never going to do that reflection question. And you're just going to go with it. You know what I mean? Like, so you have to have the ability to, like, like you said, take the pause, reflect.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

What is this really all about? Right, right. And if we could revisit, I know we've talked a little bit about the micro shifts. Yeah. But um a lot of times they're like, okay, so you're taught this sounds great, Pam. Yeah. But how do I actually interrupt these reactions? I mean, what is something that I can do, you know, when I'm in that moment, when I'm that exhausted?

SPEAKER_01 24:28

Yeah. I mean, um go to bed. Take a nap. Like, hello. Listen, there's no shortcuts for doing the real work. There's no shortcuts. You're that exhausted. Take inventory. What's gonna get you in bed quicker tonight? What how can you protect your sleep? What boundary are you missing that you're not getting into bed and getting getting the you know, enough sleep so that you don't feel like crap?

SPEAKER_00 24:55

Shut the phone off 10 minutes earlier than usual.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

You know, quit scrolling.

unknown 25:00

Yeah.

Protecting Agency In Hard Environments

SPEAKER_00 25:00

Because people don't realize how that is just stimulating your brain and you're not able to rest well. Absolutely. You know, or it's the pause, you know, going to sleep. It's just a very long pause. Yeah. And the brain can recover and be fresh the next day. But you're right, it's not big steps. It's just like, okay, 10 minutes. Really? What is that? Just shut it, shut the phone off 10 minutes earlier. It's just little things like that. Amen. Amen. Urges are often state driven, not character driven. I just want to say that to the listeners today. I don't know why. Urges are state driven. They're not character driven. So don't I just give yourself a little grace. Just know that it's your brain trying to communicate with your body. I mean, it's trying to help you. And so we know we need to listen and figure out a way to get through it. So your work extensively, you work extensively extensively with organizations. What are some practical ways people can preserve energy and agency inside demanding environments?

SPEAKER_01 26:08

Yeah, I think the first thing is to recognize that demanding environments are always going to be there, especially if you are up to big things in your life, right? If you chose a career that's hard, but you chose it because you like it. Wishing it be any different than it is is not the solution. It's the only thing you can focus on is where you have agency. You absolutely have agency. So what can you do? Take better care of yourself. It sounds so basic, but like, you know, making making sleep and window time a non-negotiable. Give yourself a shot at being able to not get devoured by stress, be able to ebb and flow with it because you feel good, right? Like making sure, you know, you're building, you're building um a healthy mind and a healthy body with your practices. What we do, what we repeatedly do affects us. You know, we are what we repeatedly do, we are what we repeatedly think, we are what we repeatedly eat, we are what we repeatedly do when it comes to sleep. Like that's it. If you start taking inventory on how you're caring for this vessel that we've been given as a gift, um, and you start taking better care of it, it's going to be a lot easier to not get devoured by the stress in the world and maintain your agency.

Boundaries And Practical Substitutions

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Yep. Yep, I agree wholeheartedly. We um we work hard on boundaries and scripts or replacing the bad patterns with the good pattern, meaning, I can give you an example. Um, when I would come home stressed from work, you know, I would start cooking dinner, dealing with the kids' homework or whatever, all the things you have to do when you get home and you're exhausted. And I would always open up this huge bag of chips. And before I knew it, I'd had eaten the whole bag of chips. And so what you can do with that is instead you buy the chips, open them up, and put them in little small Ziploc bags, okay, like a five-ounce or whatever the ounces are that you want to consume. And then for some reason, that tricks my brain into thinking, okay, I'm gonna consume this entire Ziploc of chips. And it still sated me for the moment. And I didn't eat an entire bag. I just ate that small sample. Or I used to stop at this drive-thru uh on the way home to get food that I shouldn't eat, and it would not be a little amount of food. It would be like a burger, fries, a shake, you know, all of it now would consume it before I would get home. That was just my form of binging. Yeah. So what I it was real easy to do because no one saw me eat it. And so what I started doing is I made this deal that if I stop at this re this to this fast food place, I have to go inside and I have to sit there and eat it. There is no way I'm gonna eat that kind of food in front of the world. Yeah. Or not allow myself to eat it on the way home, and then the family gets to see, you know, or consume it before I do. But anyway, there's just little things, little boundaries you can set for yourself that I think, you know, you have to figure it out, but you've got to take a moment, a pause or a brief just a moment to figure out what that is.

Don’t Wait For Collapse

SPEAKER_01 29:38

Right. Yeah, and and don't wait for yourself to hit a wall. I feel like most people think, okay, well, I'm just gonna keep going until I can't keep going anymore. And I just, you know, if I could say anything to people listening, like don't wait for you to hit a crisis or collapse. You know, you could be doing small, compassionate things, make different small micro adjustments in your lifestyle that can really, if by if you do it consistently, can overhaul like how you feel and your experience every day.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

I just love that so much. So I guess I want to close here it with this question. If someone listening, if they feel stretched thin or they're depleted or exhausted, still functioning but not feeling like themselves, that's a big one too. Um, what perspective would you want that to leave them with today?

SPEAKER_01 30:37

Yeah, I think the first thing is is we immediately want to we want to labor ourselves a failure, right? There's nothing about this that makes you weak or broken. It's truly what the human nervous system does when it's under a strain for a long period of time without recovery. So just recognize it's a sign, it's a it's a flag that your body's waving for you to pay attention. So just pay attention and give it, get, do a little bit more to help your body recover so that you're not the athlete or the Olympian running a race after a race after a race. Give yourself some downtime to recover, regroup, and come back feeling better.

Reframing Burnout And Next Steps

SPEAKER_00 31:23

This is exactly why we needed two parts for this conversation. Because, you know, a lot of people just ask, okay, this sounds great, but what can I do? And so I think that this part of the conversation will really help with that. Because, you know, resilience isn't theory, it's lived and it's practiced. And it's built in the smallest daily decisions that most people overlook. And for those of you listening, if something in this conversation resonated, let that be information, not judgment. Awareness is where change begins. Small shifts are how it becomes sustainable. So, Michelle, thank you again so much. How can we find you? Where can we find your work?

Where To Find Michelle

SPEAKER_01 32:10

First of all, you're so welcome. Thanks for having me back on again to talk about things I'm passionate about. My second home is LinkedIn. You can find me on LinkedIn, Michelle E. Dickinson, or go to Resilience as a lifestyle for my website.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

Perfect. And I'll I'll make sure those are in the show notes for everyone. And thanks for being with us today, y'all. I'll see you next time on Delay the Ben.